Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

  1. #1

    zody ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    http://www.greatfallstribune.com/app...TYLE/808080323

    ....For nearly 40 years, the Zodiac Killer and his cryptic messages have mystified authorities, but a Great Falls man believes he has some clues that could identify the 1960s serial killer who has never been caught.

    "It's the puzzles that got me," said Tim Spencer, owner of the Brighten Up Shop on Central Avenue.
    Spencer, an avid bridge player since he was a boy, said the cryptogram messages and letters the Zodiac Killer sent to three newspapers in San Francisco sparked his interest. He first saw the puzzles in the 2007 movie, "Zodiac."
    The Zodiac Killer operated in northern California in the late 1960s. He has five known murder victims but in letters to newspapers claimed responsibility for as many as 37. His identity remains unknown.
    Spencer spent hours poring over "solved" cryptographs the killer sent to police. One stated that the Zodiac liked to kill because he's collecting slaves for the afterlife. A line in one of the letters reads: "In this cipher is my identity."
    After reading the ciphered messages, Spencer didn't stop his puzzle-solving.
    "If the ciphers are solved, then where is his identity?" Spencer asked.
    Spencer is bothered by the fact that the Zodiac Killer misspelled several words. "Paradise" was "paradice," "forest" was "forrest," and there were 18 extra characters at the end of one cipher that didn't mean anything at all, according to investigators.
    Spencer asked his wife, Joy, what these misspellings might mean because someone who can make cryptograms normally wouldn't have a spelling problem.
    "To make the puzzle work," she told him.
    With that, Spencer went to work using a different method he put the ciphers together. Each was 17 columns wide and eight rows from top to bottom. He then took each column and remixed the letters to spell out words.
    "Some of them are just scary as to what they say," Spencer said.
    One awkward sentence reads, "I beat SFPDs laws by show self." That possibly could mean the killer was seen by the San Francisco Police Department but was never caught, Spencer said, which actually happened.
    Spencer figures the symbols going horizontally, the ones that already have been solved, state that the killer likes to kill and he will do it again. However, the words hidden vertically could reveal his identity, Spencer said.
    "I live in your city by the ship dks," one says, most likely referring to ship docks.
    "A sly lone letter, I sent score," another column states. The Zodiac Killer signed one letter Zodiac 5, SFPD 0.
    "This guy was really competitive and liked to play games," Spencer said. "These are the type of clues that should be followed.
    "I swear this is not an accident."
    He has gone to several police departments but his findings haven't been taken into serious consideration, he said. The San Francisco Police Department said it doesn't have time for old crimes and clues, Spencer stated.
    Most people believe the killer was a poor speller, according to the Web site, zodiackiller.com, where Spencer posts his results and receives comments from users. Many also believe solving the crime really doesn't matter because the killer is probably between 60 and 80 years old by now.
    Joy Spencer isn't as dedicated as her husband in deciphering the letters but is glad that he has "something to entertain him."
    She said the findings are relevant because the victims' families would like to know who the killer is and see him punished.
    "The real harm is in not trying," she said.

  2. #2
    texasx Guest

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    Unless he is shown to have been elsewhere by demonstrable evidence, how can he or anyone ever be excluded?

    Who knows the trail of the "evidence" exhibiting those things stated, now if the stamps for example had traces of DNA matching someone, that would be different, but the absence of DNA on the stamps proves nothing except they did not find DNA matching someone , someone they wanted to match.

    The absence of something in this cases is just that, merely an absence. Generally a killer or criminal leaves some sort of clue at a scene, but the stamps are not a scene. They are things that could have been anywhere. They have no chain of custody. The stamps themselves cannot be shown to be particular stamps from any particular place.

    What does the "stuff" on stamps do to the extraction of DNA from them? Was each and every molecule of the "stuff" actually examined? No one has said that. If each molecule was not examined how could it be known that the wanted sample did not exist there?

    You are not into absolutes, never are in crime examination. Even the finding of DNA is not absolute to the particular person, this the statements of the probabilities accompanying the analytical results. Maybe the numbers are a number that have not yet come to be, but they are stated for a reason, as disclaimer that it is not impossible that someone else is out there with the same DNA. Same with fingerprints, it has always been said that there could be someone out with the same prints, they just have not been found yet.

  3. #3

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    Sorry, I'm getting off topic here...

    The fellow that says he has solved the ciphers is using the *cipher* text as a word find puzzle. Which is okay, if you want to do that, but a true cipher is first encrypted and then decrypted using the cipher key.

    Having said that, I don't believe this fellow has or will decipher the cipher(s).

    CipherGuy
    ========
    CipherGuy none54

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    East Bay Area California
    Posts
    81

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    I don't want to come off as a know it all , but LE did get enough of a partial print from the cab in S.F. They do have enough DNA to compare to a person when he is found from the stamps and a envelope. Allen's DNA did not match nor did his prints or handwriting. He was way too big to be the man who shot Paul Stine and Darlene. Allen was so big and strong that a confrontation with B.Hartnell wouldn't have make him nervous. The killer was so worried Hartnell might try something, he had the girl tie him up for him as he held the gun on them. Allen could have back handed Harnell and knocked him out, that's how strong he was. The Zodiac is a small weak coward, but not a cry baby like Allen. Two entirely different people.

  5. #5
    texasx Guest

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    There is no definitive chain of where any fingerprint came from, how DNA came to be on a stamp. A cab normally has had hundreds of fares, how many hands do stamps go through? Just because DNA or a print exists does not mean it is not supposed to be there. It is not like your bathroom, a strange print there is found and many variable do not exist as in the cab.

    Existing DNA does not mean the DNA was placed there by licking, or by the person sending the letter, especially in those days when letters were not sorted and read by computers.

    In this instance it is a tool.

    When the DNA is pinned to an individual then yet another investigation begins, was the individual supposed to be there.

    DNA is great but it must have mini investigations of it's own to determine how the sample appeared.

    I wonder if they have eliminated the mail carrier of the letter, or the many who touched the items in how many post offices.
    Last edited by texasx; 08-11-2008 at 07:20 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    I will just point out that the prints in the cab were in Paul Stine's blood, I guess on the dashboard.

    You would think the stamp was checked for any and all dna profiles present, I don't think San Francisco are complete bumbling idiots and they know this. I think they have had a valid dna sample that has been found on all of these letters. These letters were mailed in various regions of California. You're not going to tell me that if the same dna profile is extracted from these stamps from different regions over and over that it means nothing. No way.
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 08-11-2008 at 11:10 AM.

  7. #7
    texasx Guest

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    Well I am not being listened to. Fingerprints in blood still do not mean that this particular print is the killer. If it matches another human being is great and is a start.

    So many things must be disproven whenthe print is identified, the main one is as I have stated. Did that person have a right to be there? For example was it Steins? Was it a passerby good samaritan? Was it a clumsy cop? Was the print of identifiable value? It was a partial, of what? What do you know about fingerprints?

    It seems that it is believed that because some new phenomena is found such as DNA that this clears up all things, it does not. It still must be shown that the potential match is not the first to fall out of the probability assigned as there not being others with the same DNA. Then the "does he have a reason to be there" comes into play.

    DNA does not have a definitive probability, it depends on the sample, it may well fall into the category that there may be 5,000 people on earth who have the same.May not, it may exceed the number of people who have been born on this earth thus far.

    There is a tendency to over-simplify and ignore what is really required to prove a case, it is not an IMO. It is not a just because. It has to meet standards assigned by our courts.

    Investigative stage? different but not near so simple as indicated herein. Ya gotta find the right one and just because there is a print or DNA of some human it does not mean this is someone involved.

  8. #8

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    But, we don't know that the investigators did not do all these things. They have some reason to believe that they have a valid sample.

    Honestly, I really am not so reliant about the fingerprints until they find another set that matches the ones at the Stine scene, which has never happened. The prints could have been anyone.

    I honestly am very suspicious of Allen just because of the execution of that woman at that swimming hole he frequented. She went to high school with him. Just a very suspicious unsolved "zodiac-like death.

    And, not to mention we now have Chaney saying he licked stamps for Allen.

    I think the lake death description, or any of the descriptions for that matter, cannot be totaly relied upon. These people were being shot and may not remember things as they were. I think the lake "scene" was bungled. Who the heck even knows if the wingwalker prints even belonged to the killer. Have they proven this ??

  9. #9
    texasx Guest

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    Right on all counts except that DNA is not 100% definitive however when the results come back, as I have seen them, in the stratosphere, the possibility that it may be someone else is greatly diminished.

    We used to do hundreds of paternity tests. We would see many that might come back say two billion to one. Theoretically since there are 6.5 billion people, there are theoretically three people who might match that DNA. For all practical purposes, the odds of all three people being with the mother are so small as to be virtually impossible. The only exception would be in the case of identical twins.

    However, a paternity test does not establish the legal liability of the father in that he could get a jury trial and be adjudged not to be the father in spite of the "mountain of evidence." Like O.J. who is out looking for the "real killer."

    Most people don't know this but paternity can be established through testing of the putative father's parents even if the actual father is not present or deceased.
    3 people is not definitive, the samples you suggest are sitting right next to each other. DNA is not 100%, period. Put a man to death on DNA, he was shown otherwise to have been present during the act of murder. But, it remained that testimony had to be effected to show that there was a great probability that the potential 5000 other matches could not have been avaiable to place the DNA sample.

    Testimony had to show the geographic distribution of the 5000, in India, Russia , Pakistan et. Thus reducing the potentials in the United States on down to Brazoria County. But, this had to be done by the Phd DNA expert to show that there was no great likelihood that all 5000 were in Brazoria County at the time of the killing.

    DNA is not absolute, fingerprints are more definitive.Generally a non PHd expert dactyologist will attest that there may well be others with the same prints, but they have not yet been found. Not so in DNA, you are dealing with probabilities defined by the samples and the prevailing literature. It is a new science that will develop into a more exact science as research and statistics are found.

    To take a human life there must be the old beyind a reasonable doubt. Allens parents could have walked by, his brother, his sister, his child-however the sample played out.

    I must then be shown that the DNA positive had or did not have a right to be where they were. It still msut be shown that the sample found was in itself not corrupted or contaminated. Merely accepting something found in the wild versus something found and obtained in a clinical and captured situation would be serious error. Even the captive samples must be shown to own clear provable chains of evidence and freedom from contamination.

    The numbers of potentials of others who could have the same DNA are elusive, yes they could be 3 or they could be the 5000. I would not want the life of my child taken based on an uninvestigated 3.

    We are discussing value, value of untested results from paternity that generally is "given up" by the suspect, his life is not being taken nor is it very likely that the sample and its history will be tested by a court of law and O.J's lawyer. And the glove did not fit and the reasons why were not explored-the glove would have fit if the history of the glove was investigated.

  10. #10
    texasx Guest

    Default Re: ZODIAC CIPHERS DECODED ???? !!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Starless View Post
    But, we don't know that the investigators did not do all these things. They have some reason to believe that they have a valid sample.

    Honestly, I really am not so reliant about the fingerprints until they find another set that matches the ones at the Stine scene, which has never happened. The prints could have been anyone.

    I honestly am very suspicious of Allen just because of the execution of that woman at that swimming hole he frequented. She went to high school with him. Just a very suspicious unsolved "zodiac-like death.

    And, not to mention we now have Chaney saying he licked stamps for Allen.

    I think the lake death description, or any of the descriptions for that matter, cannot be totaly relied upon. These people were being shot and may not remember things as they were. I think the lake "scene" was bungled. Who the heck even knows if the wingwalker prints even belonged to the killer. Have they proven this ??
    If the prints could have been anyoen then so could the DNA, based on the wording you just presented.

    And the DNA? The postal worker had a runny nose.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Ko-Ko and the Zodiac
    By Starless in forum Theories
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-21-2009, 05:31 PM
  2. When They Cracked The Ciphers
    By Starless in forum The Zodiac Killer
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-26-2009, 09:12 AM
  3. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 08-19-2008, 12:11 PM
  4. Merchant Ship Codes and Ciphers
    By Starless in forum Theories
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-12-2008, 11:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •